West Coast Railways has submitted a new exemption application to the Office of Rail and Road.
The heritage train operator has recently had to use Mark 2 coaches on its trains due to the central door locking issue on its Mark 1 fleet.
However, with a busy summer season ahead, West Coast Railways has submitted a new exemption application to the regulator, with the hopes that a temporary exemption means that a full summer programme can be operated as normal.
The original exemption was revoked back in January after a court decision and meant that the coaches couldn’t be used.
West Coast Railways (WCR) has submitted a Regulation 5, RSR 1999, exemption application to the Office of Rail and Road (ORR). WCR is in regular contact with the regulator and hopes for a temporary exemption to be granted swiftly so that it can operate its summer programme in full.
A WCRC Spokesperson
Responses
The arrogance of WC’s refusal to vomply is not the way forward, they have had ample time to fund snd fit CDL. It is the same safety improvement as for bus travel where the open platforms we sll used to jump on and off, including at any hold up to suit our personal journeys
Before CDL Waterloo commuters whose train had a signal check at Vauxhall may remember how many doors would open and commuters detrain.
The next thing is there want the coaches crash tested
Here here, road and rail orr or whatever they are called, the next thing they will want air condition installed , are they stupid it’s a heritage railway (plongers.) 80yrs train havr been without central locking , why now ? Next thing they will want to clear platforms of people till the train stops.
Of course the safety rules must be adhered to. 60 years ago, if someone jumped off a moving train on to a platform and fell flat on their face, they would have stood up, brushed themselves down, and gone on their way. These days they would sue. I retired from teaching twenty years ago. One of the last staff meetings I attended was addressed by a parent who was a lawyer. He advised us how to write end of term reports, so that a decade or two down the line we wouldn’t be found liable in court for an ex-student’s failure to hold down a job.
OOR rode a Jacobite in the summer and found WC to be failing on manual door management. That was the reason they stopped WC from running the Jacobite and why OOR decided to revoke their exemption, precisely because WC were in breach of that exception. WC did tighten themselves up but the OOR had made up their minds. I don’t think their case helped when they argued CDL will wipe out 10 years profits, I would rather have seen them argue the safety aspect, that they would tighten up stewards and processes to make the manual process saver than CDL. CDL is operated by one person, but there is more control with stewards in every coach so there should never have been an issue on that Jacobite run. I know they have been working with OOR since the court case, so I would expect that this application includes everything those discussions entailed. I do like the MK1s and firmly believe there is a place for them on the mainline and I can absolutely see how their operation can be safe without CDL. Let’s see what happens.
Martin I believe that it’s the ORR not OOR a small point but I wouldn’t want to see someone trying to sue you. Anything is possible in this day & age.😁😁😁
The fact is there has to be standard for ALL operators on the mainline.The writing, in this respect, has been on the wall for WCR’s and what have they done about it?
We live in a very litigious society, rightly or wrongly.
How would you feel if one of your loved ones fell from any rail operator’s train? You would want answers and would be taking legal advice about who to sue (The Rail Regulator, the train operator, the tour operator etc,etc ?).
Unfortunately, we should recall that, in 2015, a previous incarnation of of WCR,’s management presided over a rail near miss at Wooten Bassett ( I won’t receit the details – they are on record for everyone to look up).
Take your own view if you think the “silly , overly risk averse ” powers that be are being kill joys or not.
I , personally, think not.
A member of staff in every coach?! Or doorway?! Come off it. Health and Safety is now becoming a burgeoning nightmare adversely affecting everything from heritage rail to outdoor swimming.
A perfectly safe world would require us to be kept in padded cells eating from tubes….
Go to the HSB in Germany! No H&S nonsense! Do what you want – and live with it! Trains in streets, no “no-trespassing” nonsensense. Be responsible for your OWN safety!
That is WCs standard operating policy, stewards to control the use of doors.
ORR policy (and the 1999 regulations) do not mention stewards at each door but simply require Central Door Locking to be used.
All other operators have fitted CDL or agreed a fitment plan with ORR which will see them complete by end of 2024.
Why should WC be different and allowed to operate 100mph trains on the national network fitted with no safety systems for unauthorised door opening?
It doesn’t seem that long ago I’d have the door ajar as we pulled into Charing Cross and off we’d all leap while it was still braking. I don’t feel heritage, I’m not 60 yet. What a shame people aren’t able to be trusted to be responsible for their actions any more.
And that was an incredibly stupid and dangerous thing to do, not to mention proof that passengers need doors that they cannot open when trains are moving because they cannot be relied on to operate simple devices safely. Many people on WCR’s trains are unfamiliar with slam-door stock and need protecting from themselves.
I do have some sympathy with the “far too much elf & safety” arguments because I think we’ve just become too risk adverse as a whole country. The logical conclusion of rail operators and regulators saying “safety is our number 1 priority” is that they won’t run any trains at all, because running anything carries some degree of risk, and there has to be a balance struck between safety and the benefits of doing stuff.
HOWEVER, West Coast Railways have now had their previous exemption applications tested in Court and turned down repeatedly, so I cannot understand why they think this new application has any more chance of success. I think it’s time they bit the bullet and started work on a programme to install central locking on all their mark 1 carriages.
Was it really so dangerous though? I’m a safety professional and have been actively involved in risk management and functional safety for over twenty years. You do not need to look far for footage from yesteryear, showing people alighting whilst the carriage is slowing. It was common behaviour! Taking a quantifiable approach to this hazard, the sheer volume of instances where this happened, daily, without injury, means that you would find it extremely difficult to classify this hazard as high risk. It has the potential for severe impact but, the probability of that impact is extremely low.
They new about this years ago but have chosen to ignore the ruling, if they had started to install C.D.L. then this problem would not have happened, They have to accept it is their fault. Now they are saying it will cost a heck of a lot of money to install, too little too late, unfortunately the people that travel on their expensive trains now have to pay the consequence.
HDL have fitted CDL to the Hastings demu. It’s is a long and costly operation. But if we want heritage coaching stock it may be the only way. Some coach sets have been fitted with a gen to supply etha. So a diesel in not required usually the diesel is there in case of love failure to get the failure off the main line.
Totally agree west coast are wasting money on another court case when it could be spending money on doing what they were told they must do and how they can or RTC advertiser’s there GBT travel in mk 1 coaches is beyond me come on west coast get on with the job 😡
They could possibly provide evidence showing that possibly 1 rake of mk1 stock has been fitted with cdl and is progressing with the other rakes
Not sure how CDL is powered, but my big worry would be that in the case of an emergency and a power or operator failure, please inform me how a carriage load of passengers are evacuated .
Do you smash the glass to get out?
We must always remember Quininshill and locked doors. D o T.
I wonder how many of. People have bought tickets to travel on these charters. It is all very well to slag off WCR and yes they should have been on the ball but we are talking heritage trains and as such we should have heritage coaches as well. It is very difficult to fit cld on mk 1 stock plus you need a deisal for power supply, which is extra costs Statesmen and saffos have MK2stock and are quite happy to tow a deisal around with them, they are only interested in big money. Dinning. Vintage trains have an extension to the end of the year so let’s get some perspective in all this. WCR have a full programme to the end of the year but only have, at present, one set of mk 2. R.t.c have been a big customer for WCR and have a full programme. Is it heritage or a steam engine towing a pendolino around.
Absurd meddling by office of rail and road , perfectly safe in the 1950s and 60s, it is the passengers who are unsafe !
That’s precisely the point. The passengers now aren’t seasoned commuters, jumping safely off a slowing train at Waterloo, they are enthusiasts who have never had a door opening on a moving train, and have no clue of the risks. And in this case, they seem to have stewards who have failed on more than one occasion to do the job.
WCR know the rules, but for some reason think they can flout them and then blame the regulators. That trick has been proven not to work.
How often did accidents occur with the slam doors? I I suspect this is another case of excess safety despite the absence of problems!
Never heard of the Tamworth Triangle where people fell from moving Mark 3s?
Clearly it’s a case of safety first. So bite the bullet and invest in newer legally compliant rolling stock. Turn the old slam door stock into holiday let sleeping carriages…quite good revenue earners
If they had been retro fitting their fleet over the years of the exemption rather than ignoring it they wouldn’t be in this situation. The ruling has been handed down and the exemption cancelled so they need to concentrate on fitting CDL equipment instead of sending begging letters to the ORR but I guess it’s cheaper for them to hire stewards on a minimum wage zero hour contract.
Lots of comments suggesting everyone else has already reached full compliance and WCR are the only ones not to yave done so already.
All those suggestions are WRONG.
LSL, who have the Saphos, Steam Dreams brands among their stable are fully compliant. Most others have yet to re-fit their stock BUT have agreed plans and schedules to do so with ORR, amd those others have not had door incidents on their tours to cause concern meanwhile.
LSL have one rake for Steam tours. Vintage Trains has one rake. WCR have several rakes, and I hope they have offered to work through their rakes gradually over the next 12 months or so, which seems reasonable SO LONG AS THEY STEWARD PROPERLY MEANWHILE.
Looks like they cannot afford to comply something fishy about all this ….did they not make a profit from their services they provide?
All the other Operators have complied WCR seem to think that they are exempt all the time.
Are they raving mad! After their ill adviced Judicial Review application failed are they not getting the message that they must comply. Ultimately, they must comply otherwise why have “mainline” standards ( in this case re.doors) for all operators.? If their business model is to have so many (ex) vintage coaches for their rail hire business, then it is (ultimately) their responsibility to see they are technically and legally compliant. Whoever decides must insist they comply .They will then have stump up money to make coaches compliant or pare down their business.I personally feel that mainline operation with these vintage of coach cannot go on forever.We are now in an economic world where we cannot take preserved steam and other traction for granted.Look at recent news of North Yorkshire Moors Railway’s financial state!
Some years ago, permission was granted for steam traction to be used on the main lines once again. They now seem to be finding fault with everything to do with steam charters!!
That comment may be your own impression of the situation.The basic fact is, whatever type of train you run on the ” main line”, regardless of traction, it has to be compliant in every way.
They are only “finding fault” where there is fault to find. The regulations are there, and each company has to decide to follow them. Or not – in which case, of course, there are consequences.
The other operators don’t have as much stock as WCR and most of them boùght stock that was already fitted
Is the regulator being held responsible for the reduction in services, & for the reduced economic viability arising from it?
Why would a safety regulator be held responsible for a company not complying with safety regulations? WRC brought this on themselves they had the exemptions for some years knowing full well they won’t last forever yet they chose to make very little effort to bring the stock up to the standard ot should be.
West coasr need closeing down.
It makes you wonder how the Operators who have complied feel with this move