West Coast Railways says it is ‘seriously disappointed’ that the Office of Rail and Road has revoked its exemption, which allows it to run heritage trains on the mainline.
WCR’s 2024 season is due to start in two weeks, running under an exemption that was set to be in place until the 29th February 2024.
However, as we reported yesterday, the ORR has now revoked this exemption, with WCRC reaffirming it wants to work with the ORR to protect jobs and vital income for businesses that WCRC works with.
WCRC says passengers will be contacted if their service is going to be cancelled due to the exemption being revoked.
WCRC’s full statement reads
West Coast Railways has expressed its serious disappointment that rail regulator, the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) has revoked the exemption which enables it to operate its heritage rail services, including the world-famous Jacobite, on the UK main line.
With its 2024 season due to start in two weeks, the operator had asked the ORR to maintain an exemption that allowed it to operate services until 29 February 2024, while it works with the regulator to find a long-term solution. However, the regulator decided to revoke the exemption on 10 January 2024.
WCR has reaffirmed that it is keen to work with the ORR to identify solutions to enable its services to continue to operate, protecting jobs and vital income for businesses along its routes.
James Shuttleworth, Commercial Manager, West Coast Railways said: “We are extremely disappointed by this decision. We remain committed to working with the ORR to agree how we can safeguard the future of our heritage services. We now ask the regulator to reconsider urgently in the interests of our passengers and business partners, and to allow our exemption to run until 29 February.
“We are already considering a range of options and had asked the ORR to allow the current exemption to run its course, to give us time to put forward detailed proposals.
“Our much-loved services, enjoyed by so many visitors from the UK and around the world, support a large number of businesses along our routes. The Jacobite alone has become an intrinsic part of Scottish tourism, boosting the economies of Mallaig and Fort William. It brings an estimated £20 million into the UK’s tourism sector to which we contribute £50 million overall every year.
For everyone relying on these incredible heritage services this decision is a body blow.”
For passengers with bookings for WCR services that are affected, we will notify them well in advance if we do not expect their service to run. They will then be offered a full refund and can rebook their excursion if they wish. They are encouraged to contact WCR via [email protected] for more details.
Responses
Well today proves what a fuss over nothing this has been.
WCRC run their first daily tour this weekend and today moved loco & stock south from Carnforth in readiness. It’s a CDL fitted rake of MK2 aircons.
So it isn’t the end of WCRC, wheels do keep turning….
Oh dear time to spend money C.D.L
West Coast Railways are apparently “seriously disappointed” with the ORR decision. Not as disappointed as their clients will be when the trips get cancelled and they have to cancel holidays/travel arrangements/accommodation and hope to get refunds.
Why don’t they sell shares in her. I would gladly part with £100 to invest in her.
You would in invest in what?
Would sooner travel on a ‘substandard’ as described old flea bitten carriage than a modern characterless pile of plastic built abroad
Viva West Coast Railways
No one is saying MK1 & MK2 carriages gave to be scrapped just that they need central door locking fitted if you want to run on Network Rail lines with passengers.
LSL /Saphos / Steam Dreams continue to run trains with MK1s as they have fitted CDL.
Vintage Trains continue to run MK1s as they are in process of fitting CDL
VSOE continue to run Pullmans as they are in process of fitting CDL
WCRC have so far failed / refused to fit CDL, they are the odd one out. They are the only ones grounded. They are the only ones with multiple safety breaches and prohibition notices served. Tells you a bit about their attitude really despite making nearly £2.5million a year in profits.
If the extensions was until the end of Feb then were WCR just hoping that they would bully the ORR into giving them a further extension. Maybe the early withdrawal is the price you pay for being so arrogant. Perhaps if WCR are not going to run the services another operator that complies can step in and take their place. One could also argue that if the services are so lucrative it is all the more reason that she of the profits should have been reinvested for the future.
Now that ORR has finally decided enough is enough, I think it is time for WCR to be taken down.
Just because they have such a large fleet of coaching stock, they haven’t got enough money to install CDL, the boss thinks no we’re not going to do it.
Raymond Bulman
15th January 2024 at 11:30
This will not be the end of Steam Triains on the mainline. There’s too much at stake for the amount of money that has been invested in existing
and New build steam locos for future mainline use. If WCRC do not get their finger out ! Well that’s their problem. Other operators, who abide by the ruling will have the opportunity to take over and spread their wings.
As a final comment.The issues, touched upon herein, require further journalist involvement, reporting and discussion.Maybe, someone in the “railway” media might take the matter further.Certanly further comments is needed from WCR and rail charter sector.
Not sure why this system does not allow participants to see all replies and chops them for no good reasons.Again, perhaps this should be the end of mainline steam and perhaps it should be.
Some of the comments have to be manually approved, so they dont appear straight away. It will tell you after you have submitted the message if your comment is awaiting approval
Don’t be ridiculous. It generates high incime so has a good future. If steam ended then so would heritage diesel & electric. Won’t happen.
Thanks for that.
This story has generated much discussion!
In the week of Vennells and appalling government public sector management bein demonstrated in spades, this is right out of the top drawer. The judgement of only the 23rd December was clearly understood aby everyone to be a final opportunity for WCRC to fit CDL to a programme to be agreed with ORR by 29/2/24.
Instead the ORR have taken an unreasonable and unjustifiable decision to fustrate compliance by WCRC and shut down their passenger services wholesale before WCRC has had a chance to comply with the 23/12/23 judgement. The effect on Scottish tourism and financial planning cannot be overestimated
Smith and Shuttleworth may play hardball – but they don’t play dirty!
West coast rail have known about the need for CDL since 1999 but just stuck there head in the sand and refuse to fit it so it there fault if ORR has had enough and called it all so they were given till 29-03 2024 or till judgment so no they have not pulled the plug early .
Pure comedy. You seem as ignorant as West Coast
I went on a mainline steam trip to Edinburgh, two years ago, it was clear that the coaches were not generally up to it, in many ways.These old coaches cannot go on forever, on “grandfather’s” rights.Nothing goes on forever and it will cost millions to ( say) build “new” mark1 and mark 11 coaches etc.Much as we might all like mainline steam trips , the reality is it maybe getting to the end of steam on mainline.Maybe, more up-to-date mark 4 can be run as luxury trains, with diesel and electric traction, like the HST ” Blue Pullman set.Unfortunately, WCR have to “wake up and smell the coffee “.
We went on a WCR day trip several years ago and our coach had a dodgy internal door at the end of the coach. I came back through it and as I was walking back to my seat another passenger said, “Can’t you shut the door”. I turned round and tried to shut it, only for a WCR staff member shouting at me to “B***** leave it alone, it’ll shut by itself.”. Due to his shouting and swearing we have never travelled with them again.
Vintage cars don’t meet modern standards, no seat belts no mot required yet they are still allowed to use motor ways and other main roads so why Vintage rolling stock is not exempt does not make sense to me, the heritage train operators are being penalised because of a few idiots that think the rules and warning signs don’t apply to them
An exemption from a safety critical requirement that is mandatory for every other TOC shouldn’t have been given in the first instance.
There have been accidents with doors and windows forever. But the clientele of WCR isn’t people going to work or going home, it’s excitable people having a day out. And the incidence of problems with them is much higher than ‘old BR’.
The rules were changed to protect innocent (though possibly drunk and or stupid) passengers. WCR know the rules, and have multiple counts of failing to follow them (eg poor stewarding).
Actions have consequences. So does failing to act.
This is all down to WCR. No-one else.
Think it is time WCR hung up their mainline whistle.They had a near miss with GWR HST a few years ago.The money cannot be there to bring those old coaches up to mainline standard.If has to be safety first.The market is changing , younger people are not interested in steam on mainline (or indeed on preserved railways).Time to use younger coaches, say mark 4s, if available, utilising diesel and electric haulage?All good things come to an end.
I think your missing the point about why the current train is so popular. It’s about returning to a bygone age, in the most remarkable natural scenery with the Harry Potter link as icing on the cake. Each train has wizards and folk dressing up, the spirit of which could not be captured with a standard coach/electric or diesel engine.
The Carriage leasing companies have hundreds of compliant rolling stock available. There must be a way hire/ lease fees can be reduced so specialist rail tour heritage services can operate and still cover their outlay etc. Govt. Can spaff billions so perhaps #Sunak will fit one think matters through and allow it
Leisure Rail will never be subsidised by the taxpayer, nor should it be. WCR should spend less money on PR and lawyers and more money on the day job.
Lots of pure assertion there. The Jacobite is extremely popular. You are suggesting replacing steam services with just another diesel or electric train (whose seats don’t align with the windows?! Forget it.
Unfortunately, I think we are witnessing the decline and fall of mainline steam.It may be very unfortunate but it is better than people being killed and injured.Railways may not kill end injury many people, statistically compared to road, but if a “Wootten Basset” happen there would be a massive ( probably disproportionate) public outcry against ‘old trains” on the public railway.
None of the leasing companies have loco hauled carriages available for lease.
Other than the ex-TPE mk5 carriages which aren’t suitable for use with steam locos, there are none sat waiting to be used.
West Coast have lots of suitable carriages , they just need to comply with the law and fit central door locking the same as all other heritage carriage operators have done.
No, there are not “hundreds of compliant rolling stock”. The mainline leasing companies have, approximately, ZERO compliant coaches that would be compatible with mainline steam. We’re not just talking about CDL and retention tanks, but rather more significant issues like (vacuum) brakes and couplings. e.g. Mark IVs *can* be fitted with buckeyes (instead of tightlock) and buffers, but would need modification (I believe) for screwlink; and in any case, at what cost? Whilst many steam operators are retro-fitting their locos with air braking equipment, not all have; again, what’s the cost (and in some cases the practicality) involved in that?
Amazing people in authority who haven’t got a clue what goes on and the pleasure for thousands of peoples fun will be spoilt.
The next thing is to get a fund going to cover the cost of carriage conversions
Yes but WCR have a mainline operating licence and that means they must be up to standards of ALL other operators with such a licence.The operator was fined £200,000 in March 2015, when a steam train under their control, passed a signal at Wootton Bassett Junction.The near miss was nearly with an HST.Driver of WCR steam train had disconnected TPWS.If the collision had happened, it is likely that WCR would have been invoiced in a almighty disaster, which itself could have ended mainline steam for everyone then.They must comply or go to the wall.We all love (mainline) steam but we cannot have potential catastrophes like that.
West Coast make around £2.5million profit a year.
Their last published account show them having £6million cash in the bank.
It is stated in the court judgement that it would cost just £1.8million to fit 5 full rakes of coaches with CDL (£30,000 per coach).
Why do WCRC need public money or crowdfunding to meet their legal obligations?
I think everyone’s missing the bigger picture here. This isn’t really about passenger safety. It’s about Climate Change. Net Zero ring any bells?. ‘They’ don’t want filthy steamers and dirty diesels polluting the environment. Using the public safety narrative is just masking the real reason in my opinion.
If all the other heritage operators have complied, there really is no excuse. You can’t help but feel that WCR are simply trying to avoid the capital costs and if so, they only have themselves to blame.
I’m so sick of the Climate Change narrative I’ve changed sides. China have more than 1,100 coal-fired plants and we scratch about with a tiny fraction of the world’s population cow-towing to this ridiculous story. There’s plenty of evidence to suggest this is one big lie (try YouTube for a few videos) I no longer even believe in this anymore, ‘Global Boiling’ (What?!) was the last straw!
There’s plenty of videos on YouTube supporting Flat Earth, too… 🙂
No such thing as global warming, the UK is 2° colder now than it was 300 years ago and 6° colder than a couple of thousand years ago when the Roman’s were growing grapes in Scotland and North Wales mountains. It’s all lies by the government to control us. More lies like they did with Horizon.
This is the 1st step in a new Steam Ban for the main line. People can’t see but it’s all in the great plan of this current goverment with its Net Zero garbage. Steam Railways put out so little CO2 its insignificant l, a return flight to Spain puts out more CO2 than all 250 heritage railways contribute in a year. That’s what this is really about people, wake up. How many incidents are there on Heritage rolling stock per annum in the UK? How many people are injured by automatic doors on modern stock? 🤔
“A return flight to Spain puts out more CO2 than all 250 heritage railways contribute in a year”
A plane carrying 300 passengers would burn around 10 tonnes of fuel getting from London to Madrid and back, A “Castle” loco would burn around 7 tonnes of fuel lugging those same passengers just 250km.
Whilst only around 2% of transport carbon emissions are attributable to Rail – and heritage rail a vanishingly small proportion of that, I have to take issue with your comparison.
It will totally lose the impact of being a heritage railway if they have to add magnetic auto opening doors, this snowflake generation we live in where nobody can think for themselves is very depressing.
Fr those who don’t believe we had a problem on BR, read up about the number of incidents in the Tamworth Triabgle in 1990-91. The Coroner said that there had been 325 mysterious deaths by falling from trains since BR was formed in 1948, that’s about one every seven weeks.
That’s the point. It’s not a heritage railway, it’s running on the main line at a higher speed than heritage so needs additional safety measures. And it’s not about people opening doors – it’s about old locking mechanisms failing when people are leaning out of windows to get photos.
Please will the ORR review the situation regarding Barlaston Station? We are now in our 20th Year of Bustitution. We want our train service restored, as promised when it was temporarily suspended for tbe West Coast upgrade. We hold the record for tbe longest bustitution in world history! Hang your heads in shame! Restore our viable train service on tbe new Crewe to Stafford shuttle.
I make it 7.7 per annum on the deaths figure you have given.
One would have to make a determined effort to fall from a railway carriage. These were probably suicides! There have been no incidents with MK1 and MK2 carriages in preservation, to my knowledge!
Everyone else has complied I have travelled since the late 50s and never had a problem with slam door but nowadays the public expect doors to be locked maybe a sign of the times but the law is the law and they have chosen to be smart rather than sort it out properly
My first suggestion was not allowed
This is the same as the first but no names
Why not fit electro magnets to all doors
This could be operated with 1 switch
Operated my a member of staff
Steward etc
I hope this applies South of the border aswell
Have there been any incidents/close calls/near misses on these slam door carriages? Has the line become more unsafe due to climate change eg landslip? Were WCR aware that their exemption renewal was not a formality and that they should invest in newer carriages? Subject to these answers it seems similar to cross border cycle routes being delabelled north of Berwick upon Tweed due to desktop risk assessments that cause significant lost Scottish tourism income.
This has nothing to do with the Jacobite or Scottish law.
It has everything to do with the Railway Safety Regulations 1999 which mandated CDL to be fitted to hinged door passenger carriages (read Regulation 5 if you need to see it in black and white).
ORR have been clear that the exemptions from regulation 5 would not continue after March 2023 unless highly exceptional cases were made.
WCRC have had several near misses with open doors / people exiting moving trains, they have had several prohibition notices for not following agreed safety systems / laws.
The recent legal case brought by WCRC was found against them in all counts and that ORR was correct in how it was applying the regulations. Suggest you read the judgement.
This applies nationally to all WCRC rolling stock with hinged doors not fitted with CDL. They can continue operating with heritage carriages fitted with and using CDL. No one expects then to buy or build new carriages.
All other heritage carriage operators are complying with the 1999 regulations and have fitted or are in process of fitting CDL. Only WCRC refused and have been posturing and trying to use spurious costs as a reason not to do it.
They’ve failed so now are grounded.
I used to travel on mark one stock very frequently in the days of B.R. Blue, doing 80 mph behind a Peak or a 47, no on train announcements. How did we manage to survive???
I feel sorry for the tourists, especially the Japanese who love Harry Potter. Hope they can cancel their flights and hotels without losing out. There were a lot around Glenfinnan when I was there.
Overbearing health & Safety ruining people’s enjoyment again.
They have had years and years to find a solution , the ORR have been very reasonable but time is up. Many travellers now have no experience of obsolete slam door stock, its not the 1980’s now .
It’s been written into Law since 1999 that CDL must be fitted to hinged door passenger carriages.
All other heritage operators are complying. Only West Coast decided to refuse / delay etc. They tried going legal, they lost as the law is quite clear.
They have had a few serious incidents of people / doors in last few years. Plus their various prohibition notices for breaches of safety laws & agreed working. Plus Wooton Bassett and wilful isolation of a mandatory safety system.
Read the court judgement, it’s very enlightening.
ORR are not the bad guys.
That’s why it’s called a Heritage Service.
Wonder why the carriage doors that have have seen many decades of use is now a big issue 🤔. Maybe it’s a minority of people who can’t/won’t behave that’s now caused a problem. Interesting fact would be number of journeys and passengers successfully completed without incident versus number of incidents/passengers affected? But who am I! Common sense clearly gone out of window!
They’ve had since 1999.
ORR first warned of a March 2023 deadline for CDL (or agreed transition period) 3 or 4 years ago.
West Coast chose to refuse to fit CDL in that time and took legal action instead. They lost.
All other heritage carriage operators have either fitted CDL already (eg. LSL/Saphos and Riviera or are in the process of doing so eg. Vintage Trains/VSOE).
When your in a whole stop digging. ‘I’ll b well do it MY way hits the buffers.