The 4709 Group has confirmed the future for GWR Castle No. 7027 Thornbury Castle, and has released a statement.
After waiting six months for any suitable offers, the Great Western Society says that they have received no approaches from groups and individuals with adequate funds to allow for a restoration of Thornbury Castle.
Approval has now been given to The 4709 Group to use the boiler to complete new-build No. 4709.
Whilst a lot of work needs to be done, the boiler will be examined, overhauled and test before being put into 4709’s frames, saving the group around half a million pounds, and around 5 years work.
Back in August, the 4709 Group purchased the Great Central Railway based locomotive, and soon set out plans to convert the rest of the locomotive into a Star Class (though this was later scrapped).
Previous owner, Jonathan Jones Pratt set out plans to purchase the locomotive to restore her, and in September, the Great Western Society said that they would wait six months before proceeding as they would ‘consider’ suitable offers.
In his statement, Richard Croucher said: “I think it’s probably fair to say that we have exhausted all the alternative options for Thornbury Castle and to date, the Great Western Society (GWS) has received no approaches from any group or individual with adequate funds or access to sufficient resources to enable a restoration of Thornbury Castle.”
“After a six month long wait to establish whether there was a potential for a different future for Thornbury Castle, we now have approval to use the boiler to expedite the build of 4709.”
“That notwithstanding, we are no longer planning to have a new boiler fabricated and as a result, expecting to save around half a million pounds and probably five years work in getting 4709 finished.”
Responses
I agree with the Anonymous post of 11 May 2023 regarding backfire on all associated with 7027. I have not renewed my subscription to the Great Central Railway where the boiler languishes because I believe they are also complicit in the decisions being made.
The Castles were first meant to have the 4700 class boilers but would have exceeded the weight limits applying at the time and got smaller boilers. Now for an alternative future.
The LMS had proposed to rebuild all Jubilees and Patriots with the 2A boiler after the Royal Scot class had been done, to form a uniform class 7P. In the alternative future, the rebuilding programme then did the GWR Castles, from 1960 on. In the 1970s, locomotives were converted to the Porta exhaust system as they went through the works, and after 1990, firing with light oil was introduced, using the DLM Winterthur system applied to new builds in Switzerland and Austria, in 1993.
Where is this leading? A Super Castle with a boiler the size originally envisaged, possibly derived from the successful LMS 2A boiler (would it fit?), oil firing and an up to date exhaust system. Given the low mileage of 7027, such a loco would be a useful addition to the main line steam fleet.
This will backfire big time on the GWS, mark my words, because I know for a fact that it will happen.
C’mon Tyesley 7027 was yours at one stage, bring the remains home please.
you had a new set of motion made in India at one stage. Do the right thing in memory of the late Pat Whitehouse! Make Tyesley the Mainline Castle Centre in the Midlands
Bas
GOD DAMN YOU GUYS.
A class 7 passenger locomotive is really for the mainline, and plenty exist. What is needed is class 3/4 tank locomotives that are new and have updated features for ease of maintance and that is designed for eco fuels/ low quality coal. A 1920’s GWR design really isn’t that for a start they need high quality coal which is expensive and in limited supply they don’t have roller bearings etc. Don’t get me wrong the GWR designed great locomotives for their time but by it’s demise they where no longer state of the art, for that you should look to France with advanced compounds etc. If we need new mainline locomotives build on Dr Porta’s work and Chapelon as undoubtably Churchward would have done. Such a locomotive would need to be able to sustain 100mph to keep up with the modern railway, would need a booster for quick acceleration. So Thornberry Castle should receive a cosmetic refit ie doesn’t need a boiler, as its best future is as a exhibition item in museums.
The chassis of 7027 could be used as the basis of a Super Castle. It must be low mileage. See my comments. I suspect that the LMS 2A boiler would fit or could be made to. The Castle boilers were under-sized due to weight restrictions at the time.
7027 Thornbury Castle needs to be on the mainline
I don’t like this idea at all.
If the rest of 7029 is kept safely and so able to be restored, then surely this is just like Swindon works swapping boilers during overhaul? The restoration of the rest of 7029 could still take place as or when funds become available. Restoring of other the components of the loco, would be an affordable set of steps. These could be added to a parts pool of items to keep others in service, even berating some funds?
The frames are the skeleton of the loco and carry the name. These should be stored where they do not deteriorate. Works towards restoration could be carried out as and when funds permit. The boiler is a time sensitive overhaul item, so is not needed until the rest of the loco is close to ready anyway.
Looking ahead, with the inevitable effect of metal fatigue etc likely to cause other Castles to possibly have time out of service for frame repairs. Having another set of frames ready to put a boiler onto might be a good option.
Very sensible reply.
I think as an enthusiast of the GWR since 1958 , this is a very good decision at the end of the day we have through the hard work of many a number of castles in preservation .
Good decision keep up the good work.
In some ways it’s quite amusing that, like the Baby Deltic / Class 37 cut and shut, the real world is following the modelling world (turning a Castle body into a 4700 was a fairly common conversion). However, it does seem very short sighted to destroy an existing loco to gain a boiler that isn’t technically correct for the 4700, creating considerable ill will in the process. I wonder how the GWS will fare the next time they get the begging bowl out? As for Mr Croucher’s rather pathetic justification, there used to be a saying that if a job’s worth doing, it’s worth doing properly. Is that no longer the case at Didcot? Raise the money, take the time and produce a real Night Owl, not a pastiche.
What utter stupidly. The boiler from 7027 isn’t even of the correct type used by the 4700….. shocking lack of awareness from the 4709 group.
If it were football the pre-match score would be Castles 8, Night Owls 0, at the end of play it could be 7-1, result I’d say.
This is an absolute travesty that 7027 Thornbury Castle is being treated with such distain. All steam engines are living & breathing magnificent pieces of engineering at its best. I find this absolutely disgraceful that 7027, Thornbury Castle is being treated with such lazy fair attitude & basically no better than to canabalise the boiler & other working parts for other engines. These parts should be left where they belong….and that is within 7027, Thornbury Castle itself!
Can’t fund raising, more awareness & time help? Steam Trains are amazing. All engines should have the best possible outcome & possibilities to keep them alive. Heritage Railways & passengers love Steam Trains. I know that they are so popular as guest engines as well as resident engines.
Please, please, reconsider canabalising 7027, Thornbury Castle.
I am sure with national awareness, time & fund raising all Steam Engines could be saved. There are thousands of Railway fanatics!
Helen, there are already seven Castles in preservation and even they will NOT all survive given the dire economic future. In an ideal world I would agree with you.But real hard times are ahead.
It’s been preserved for around 60 odd years, is that not long enough to raise awareness and time to fund it’s restoration?
Sensible use of the loco. Times are getting increasingly hard for the preservation movement. I suggest that Ian Bliss should have funded the rebuild of Thornbury Castle himself. He was given the opportunity. Hats off to the people who actually DO something. Good luck with 4709.
Sorry, but this utterly stinks.
Another new build, with no history, using modern technology…
And yes you’ve guessed it, so a few can make a lot of money via hiring the loco out to various train companies and restricting the average person from riding behind it, because of the ridiculous ticket pricing.
No doubt I will be machine gunned, by the supporters of the project.
Hey ho.
not the supporters but anyone looking at HR operation knows there is just not enough money to go round
Oh dear Ian.
So you are expecting someone with a spare million quid, a fully kitted out works and a gang of skilled engineers to
hand restore in traditional manner, and with age old tools .
Yeak OK. I can see that in the last six months your dream hasn’t really shaped up for you. How many more years does the dinosaur have to lay untouched ? How many preserved railways are going hire in 7027 for cheapo preserved railway cheese butty trips ?
Personally think you are in dreamland, but enjoy it coz i bet it is nice and cozy.
I don’t anyone makes money out of steam engines. They coast a fortune to overhaul, a fortune to run and then you have to do it again. And that is assuming you get the full 7 or 10 years from the ticket.
If you’ve owned a loco, you may already have these insights. If you haven’t, then honestly speaking, they are a loss making and expensive hobby. Great fun, but you need deep pockets or a benefactor. They really don’t turn a profit.