West Coast Railways has suspended its world-famous Jacobite steam train with immediate effect.
The service has run for 30 years, but with the ongoing exemption suspension, the decision has been taken to suspend the service.
The train runs from Fort William to Mallaig and WCRC says it brings in an estimated £20m to the tourism sector.
WCRC has submitted an application for a temporary exemption from March 2024, however, as the exemption has not yet been granted, WCR has had to suspend the service until further notice.
“We are disappointed to have to suspend this service and we are sorry for the inconvenience caused to our customers who have booked trips. We again appeal to the ORR to reconsider our request for a temporary exemption.
“The Jacobite service is enjoyed by thousands of customers every year. It boosts the local economies of Mallaig and Fort William and brings an estimated £20 million into the UK’s tourism sector. If the ORR does not grant us a further exemption, we believe this could lead to up to £50 million in lost value to both local and national communities.”
“We remain committed to working with the ORR to find a long-term solution which safeguards the future of heritage services on the main line.”
James Shuttleworth, Commercial Manager, WCR
Passengers with bookings for the Jacobite will be offered a full refund. They can also contact WCR via [email protected] for more details.
The Office of Road and Rail have released a statement following the decision to suspend the train service, you can read that statement by clicking here.
Responses
WCR have plenty of forming playing fast and loose with safety and maintenance. The expression Black Paint C4 was coined after we saw some of their coaching stock that needed remedial attention at a site where I worked. Simple things like re- using fasteners and spray painting out of spec components and refitting them. At one depot they didn’t wait for the DP to arrive and reversed the train over the derailer.
They’ve had 25 years to sort this out and are now moaning, despite every other operator complying. The ORR have been more than generous.
Booked and paid for hotels etc
This is worse than poor my party includes an “unwell” traveller who may not be around long enough to re book.
Surely an interim solution can be found?
A solution does exist Kevin and that’s the fitment of central door locking. West Coast Railways know that and took Office of Rail and Road to a judicial review last year – the Judge determined last December that ORR approach is correct and proportionate. Other train operators have complied or are complying with Central Door Locking fitment. Last summer these very trains were suspended as West Coast failed to provide sufficient stewards to form one of the mitigations for lack of central door locking. I shall never travel with them again.
I doubt it in the time scale and anyway they should have their licence taken away.The sheer fact that they think ( thought) that they could bluster their way through this.
Spot on, exactly how I feel as well.
Seen reports elsewhere that WCRC appeared on GB News yesterday and have said their exemption is based on NOT fitting CDL and they have provided a risk assessment to that effect!!!!!!!
I really do wonder about the mentality of the folk at Carnforth.
dont hold your breath if you’ve got tickets for this season on the Jacobite.
This is taken from the official report into the Wootten Bassett incident. It makes horrifying reading as to the mentality of WCR staff and management.
WCR clearly think they are above the rules.
“Train 1Z67 also passed signal SN45 at danger because the TPWS system was unable to reduce the speed of the train by automatically applying the brakes. This was because TPWS had been rendered ineffective by Tangmere’s crew when they had isolated the AWS system in order to by-pass an automatic brake application which had occurred at a speed restriction. Isolating AWS in this way was in contravention of the relevant rules but the RAIB has found that it had almost certainly become an accepted practice among some train crews on this locomotive. This was probably because warnings from AWS were not always apparent to drivers, who were also anxious to avoid delays resulting from brake demands. Measures intended to prevent the misuse of AWS isolations had either not been adopted by West Coast Railways or had not been effectively implemented.
The RAIB found three underlying factors. These were that the AWS system on Tangmere was installed in a way which meant that warnings from the system were not always apparent to drivers. In addition, the investigation found that a speed restriction which was in place on approach to the junction was based on incorrect information and had been implemented in a way which did not conform to the relevant rules and standards. The investigation also found that West Coast Railways had a weak safety culture and that this had affected the way its staff observed rules and instructions.”
There’s long been a question mark over WCR safety record. Let’s not forget the Wootton Basset incident that almost ended in carnage.
There’s been other incidents caused by cost cutting.
Yes I agree that there is absolutely no reason to ban slam doors and no reason people don’t know how to open and close a door.
As someone said on here they have had 25 years to fit the required locks and chosen not to.
I have long had grave reservations about WCR and their ability to run trains on the main line safely.
The question here for me is not that they haven’t fitted the required safety measures.
The question is why they haven’t fitted them.
Let’s take responsibility for ourselves.
We don’t need people telling us what to do.
If the rail regulator makes a decision then by all means challenge where it’s needed and conform or don’t operate. As a heritage operator it’s not an easy task and appropriate safety equipment needs to be fitted to locomotives to allow trains to run safely but they aren’t unique in any way, there are plenty other operators that have had SPAD incidents you just don’t hear about them. Regards safe operation if the train crew aren’t time served then the footplate inspector should be up to the job to maintain safety.
They have years to comply so no excuse.
Cotton wool society, no common sense, lack of taking responsibility for one’s own actions, a generation that can’t think for themselves , blah, blah, blah
Why not go the whole nine yards and fit air bags and seat belts to trains and give everyone a life jacket after all the train does go near water ! Yet another excuse to try and get steam off the mainline and an abuse of H&S regulations.
Our parents and grandparents must be turning in their graves at this over regulated nonsense all for the sake of some compo and stupidity.
Strange how society survived the last 100 years without child locks on train doors.
Perhaps we should put guard rails round swimming pools to stop people falling in – no different to opening a door and trying to step onto an imaginary platform. Perhaps we should ban any car that doesn’t lock its doors as soon as it sets off just to protect those in society that have a desire to get out a moving vehicle. Oh and if it’s to protect your little darlings why not keep them under control’s after all they are your responsibility.
Just returned from LSR trip to Worcester behind 6100. All their 10 carriages had CDL. This now more of a commercial decision – the Regs have now been in place years.
Get a Life.
BTW, are you a Board Member, OR have a personal or financial interest in WCR’s?
Look forward to your reply.
WCR has had ample time to comply as other Heritage Railways have.
I suggest that WCR has a Cavaliering approach to the situation, as clearly happy to spend their profits in the Courts, trying to defend their predicament, rather than spending their monies on their rolling stock!
Or am I wrong?
No!
I am correct.
At this time I have No Details in relation to the Contract of Engagement that WCR has in order to facilitate the Jacobite.
So, is WCR in breach of it’s obligations?
(I am certain that Anyone with this information would be welcomed within these Comments)
If so an Accredited Heritage Provider, or even Scotrail, could consider running a compliant Steam service.
Back to the intro, WCR, GET A LIFE!
How can it be an abuse of H&S regulations?
The applicable law is the Railway Safety Regulations 1999, laid down by parliament. These regulations mandate CDL be used on all passenger stock with hinged doors.
ORR are simply enforcing those regulations. They are not reinventing them or abusing them, simply doing what the lawmakers wrote into law. The JR reaffirmed that this is both lawful and economically feasible (WCRC make around £2m a year in profit and the cost of fitting CDL is under £2m).
WCRC have known this since the early 2000s and ORR informed all operators in 2021 that exemptions would not be granted after 31 March 2023.
WCRC have made this mess all by themselves. No one else to blame but good luck if you can change society as a whole and step back in time to 1960s where people did die and get seriously injured exiting moving trains and might not have sued for damages.
Perhaps it’s time the Jacobite was put out to tender so it can be run by someone else under ScotRail supervision and with a more appropriate loco too. As for the CDL problem WCR could have easily blanked off the internal door openers as per Mk 3s in the HST sets until CDL could be fitted. Also Mk 1s can be locked with a carriage key from outside so it’s pretty easy to lock the doors at Fort William and open them if people want to get off between there and Mallaig
Just interested as to which locomotives you would regard as ‘more appropriate’…
To all those trying to defend them, they can afford it, just take a look at their accounts at Companies House
There is absolutely no need for the trains to be cancelled and I hope that someone else steps in and runs them.
Bully boy tactics to try and get yet another exemption. Add to that the costs they have incurred trying to fight it all the time
I dont wholeheartedly agree with all the ORR proposes or stands for but why should one company and a very profitable one at tat be ale to keep getting away with it
I’d say that the ticket sales for this season should be honoured because the unknowing passengers have booked in good faith. WCR should be given a year’s deferment but take on extra staff for every journey to man doors, extra signage be put up, and the situation be explained to people. Then the suspension should be re-applied informing WCR that 2025 and beyond services will NOT run unless the carriages are fitted with the necessary locking devices! That way WCR have a year to plan the necessary work needed, order in parts and arrange for man power to do the work and through the Winter 2024 sort it all out and become compliant ?
Lisa,
Honour Ticket Sales?
Hello!
I don’t think so.
WCR Knowingly sold an expectation of travel that they MUST have known would be subject to Scrutiny in 2024, following the ORR contact with them, NOT ONLY in 2023, but over the years prior.
They had ONLY some 19 to 20 years to rectify!
How professional is/are those within WCR Management?
(Let’s continue selling tickets and explain that the locals will suffer financially as we, WCR, continue profitising and being Non-Compliant)
Who in this world, apart from WCR, would expect that the ORR would bow down to this Non Compliant Rail Operator who has eluded to realty?
I said it before, and say it again.
WCR Get a Life.
Lisa. From previous incidents, the operator has proved it cannot be trusted. It had two warnings last year of failing to adhere to an agreed process, then got a Judicial Review which went against them, had their exemption to use carriages without central locking revoked, and STILL they whinge, moan and try to divert a lawful process. Why do they think they are a special case?
They also have substantial cash reserves and can easily afford to fit carriages with central locking. They fact they don’t/won’t, while others have complied tells you so much about how the company is run and managed.
They also waited from Jan 10 to March 8 before submitting a new application. Why?
And note how they always try and shift the finger of blame elsewhere.
Hmm….I don’t think locking the doors from outside would be a good idea. What happens if there is an accident – or a fire – and passengers can’t get out?
Even train on the network has centrally locked doors and that is not viewed as a safety issue as there is a way of opening each set of doors manually should an evacuation be required.
The line became an LNER constituent so North York Moors K1 2005 K2 Great Marquis and even the B1 Mayflower West Coast use LMS Black 5s
The main problem nowadays is that people are so used to doors that automatically lock and are possibly/probably unaware that there are still trains running that do not have this feature. The majority of enthusiasts are aware of this stock but day trippers wanting a ride behind a steam locomotives may not be.
I have booked the Jacobite steam train journey in January for the 20 May. I’ve booked and paid to stay in Fort William from Monday to Friday just to do the steam train journey. I will be so disappointed if this issue isn’t sorted before I’m due to go on holiday. As I’m sure many other passengers will be too!!..
Just use normal train
I also have booked a holiday in Fort William for the sole purpose of traveling on the Jacobite. A refund will not make up for the disappointment in any way ….
Hmm…..I have some sympathy with the “excess ‘elf&safety” argument because, as many are saying, these coaches were used for many years on the mainline without an epidemic of people falling out of them.
However, West Coast has now had their exemption requests turned down in Court on appeal, so it really is time that they faced up to reality. The chances of them getting another exemption must be slim to non-existent, but they are clearly now trying to use the loss of tourist spending in Scotland to apply pressure to the Regulator. I think this is a very risky strategy and seems unlikely to work.
I’m the same. Flying in from Turkey in July with my wife for a Lochs & Glen’s steam holiday, thats the highlight. Really cheesed off now.
Central locking being demanded for health and safety reasons ; conversely centrally locked doors could be a safety hazard & death trap in the event of an accident with passengers locked in, unable to get out. Personally I’d prefer carriages as they are. [ Yale locks are not allowed in multiple occupancy rentals for so called safety reasons ] Lots of health & safety anomalies, which defy common sense. : ‘smoke kills’ but self closing firedoors, must have wide gaps at bottom to ensure they bang shut easily !!
WCRC have had 25 years to crack on and fit CDL to these vehicles, but have chosen not to do so. A CDL solution was fitted and certified in a number of Hastings Diesel’s not substantially dissimilar vehicles by 2008, allowing that unit to operate in a compliant manner. Hence it is clear that WCRC could have complied many years ago, but have chosen to rely on multiple derogations.
In my opinion WCRC’s actions suggest that they are nothing more than a fly-by-night operation that either needs to comply with the terms of their licence (in the same way as every other main line operator) or step aside and let a more trustworthy operator have a crack at the market.
Fire doors are NOT smoke doors hence the gap at the bottom to allow them to close quickly. They are fitted with intumescent seals all round which expand when they get hot and creates a seal.
Had always wanted to go. Finally went last summer and really enjoyed the experience and it was full of “Harry Potterists” of all nationalities.
Spent £450 on hotel for 3 nights, 3 evening meals £250, 3 pub visits £75 plus snacks and incidentals in Fort William.
Pub lunch in Mallaig which was buzzin when the train emptied, £60.
That was for 2 people.
Imagine the loss to the economy. Frightening.
Mallaig will really feel it.
It’s a crying shame. Never had central locking for 100+ years.
I.d be inclined to ask the people who quoted 20 million to justify it
We are so disappointed this has happened. Judging by the comments the company was aware of the issue but decided to sell tickets We were booked for the end of April and now not sure what to do We were coming up by the overnight train and staying in a B&B just to ride this train I feel for the small businesses that depend on tourism
WCR have been aware of this requirement for years now. Not complying whilst milking the tourists with astronomical prices for the Jacobite journey has been the plan all along.
As for the £20 million figure quoted that contributes to the tourist economy, I would like to see the “Donald Trump…esq” self valuation reports on that one.
The truth is, the coaches are not safe, without CDL ,WCR are running the coaches into the ground and will blame any 3rd party when they walk away with a rather healthy profit margin to boot
Not safe???? What on earth are you on about?
These coaches have been in use for years without issues. It’s all health and safety gone MAD!!!!
Would love to know what the IQ is of anyone who has been injured or worse in a MK1 coach. The level of control exerted by authorities under the guise of safety is inappropriate. We can judge risk, we can close doors, we can see if a door is open. If you can’t, tough. We don’t fence off pavements from roads, but I guess it’s only a matter of time.
That is a completely unfair comment. Totally. The coaches have been safe for years and have a good safety record. £20Mil into the local economy is probably an underestimate but the true figure will never be known. The prices of the Jacobite are very, very reasonable. I get a fantastic day out (6 trips now over the years) 6 hours on the train through the most wonderful scenery. Yet it costs me more than the second class ticket of the Jacobite, a lot more, to do an 80 minute journey, second class from the Kent coast to London by train!! Think you need to have a bit of a re-think. Some Jobsworth at the ORR needs to have a re-think too and consider a bit of reality.
Perhaps a solution would be for ScotRail to take over the running of this service and invest the necessary to purchase the rolling stock, or something else suitable, and fit central door locking.
Of course they would have to hire in locomotives and staff but this way the tourism demand could be met and support the businesses in the area.
I realise that time has now run out for this season but perhaps there’s sufficient time for a restart in 2025.
Ignoring the sensationalist statements by WCRC and the local economy to the Wast Highlands, let’s look at a few facts.
The requirement to use CDL on these coaches was established into law by parliament in 1999
The recent court case upheld that this is a lawful requirement and economically viable
The recent court case established the cost of fitting the whole WCRC fleet was around £1.8m
Companies House publicly accessible accounts show West Coast make around £2m a year in profit.
This issue isn’t about the Jacobite, it’s about all of the carriages West Coast use (over 100 listed) on trains running at 100mph across the U.K.
West Coast have known all this since 2021 but have ignored, delayed and obstructed it. It’s clear now they haven’t had a plan B and now lose income and reputation whilst trying to blame everyone else but themselves. They are(were) profiteering.
They deserve no sympathy.
Disproportionate. How many people have been hurt on / by these trains. Any? Elf n’safety gone mad. If an idiot opens a door one a moving train and injures themselves tough luck, if they injure someone else they should be held liable. Its time those of us who can look after ourselves without the Nanny State interfering all the time with our enjoyment of life are allowed to do so
‘If an idiot opens a door on a moving train and injures themselves tough luck’ . . . What an absolutely stupid thing to say! Firstly, it would involve the massive use of the emergency services, even putting their safety at risk, Secondly, it would mean the Jacobite services being suspended while an investigation took place, almost certainly ruining the enjoyment of thousands of other people. Thirdly, it could potentially mean the scrapping of the Jacobite services permanently. These days you have to have safety precautions in place to prevent ‘idiots’ (of which there are many) from committing acts of stupidity which invariably spoil the enjoyment of others.
The problem is that such idiots are likely to sue in the hope of some easy money.
The problem is entirely of WCR’s making. They’ve known about CDL for a decade or more and done nothing except seeking exemptions and making lots money. They should have worked on a proper solution (ie retrofit CDL!) They can’t blame H&S legislation nor ORR.
Maybe WCR, should asked nicely and got some of the MK3’s that were scrapped a couple of years ago with CDL, and then painted them in the WCR livery and maybe made them look like the MK1 they were replacing ??????
Mk3 coaches just wouldn’t be the same for me, might as well fo the trip in a mundane dmu
I am an ex Scot rail driver of many years ago and gave a family booking on this train for may . Spent thousands on non refundable hotel payments so have a vested interest .
However , I am shocked to read and learn of WCR prevarication on fitting CDL in the premise that they will get automatic renewal of exemptions. Givin the profitability of the company this action leaves me speechless. On reading of other breaches of safety over the years by services operated by WCR it makes me wonder what other safety issues have not been brought to anyone’s notice. Are wheels axles and bearings being checked and maintained regularly especially if Mark one coaching stock is being used on high speed trips .
The MK1 stock is fine for use in principle but it is aged and needs to be looked after meticulously.
We will be looking at redress for our trip if it does not happen.
West Coast have ran these trains for years and knew they were having to fit Central Door Locking so have had ample time to comply other operators have done already. So West Coast get cracking and comply
Who cares about this locking rubbish anyway, for gods sake these carriages have been in service for years. Teach the idiots to not fall out and stop wrecking everything for everyone for the sake of the stupid.
But they do.. if you read the court documentation there was two safety incidents related to the doors on WCR they are playing fast and loose with the rules and safety.. they believe having a steward at the door is safe but as the court report states one steward was over powered by a customer and the customer opened the door I believe it was at York it was only the platform staff who stopped the person getting off the train while it was still in motion.
So they tell us, but what is a realistic figure per coach? I suspect the figures they have quoted are “top end” ones. Could another operator now step in and take their place?
This service has had a good run so maybe it’s time for it to end anyway. It will reduce tourism to Fort William and (especially) Mallaig to some extent but both places will survive. In any case, maybe the slots which have been freed could be filled with something else.
I agree. Many other trains can run in the same style. The main point is the viaduct, and it’s still there.
Absolutely – free up a spot for normal travellers who used to love the line but couldn’t afford the extortionate fares!
Poor deluded man!
Usual overreach by overpaid Civil Servants just doing there job This isn’t the West Coast Mainline and the stock adds to the experience ORR won’t be happy until they’ve shut this service down or better still forced WCR to use diesel multiple units
Agreed. This is just bureauroracy for its own sake. The carriages have been absolutely fine for DECADES. Common sense has been replaced by communist style dogma. I have been on the Jacobite several times. It is PERFECTLY safe and a wonderful experience. I am SICK of the nanny state.
I think get rid of the over priced train and let scottail run a service useing 156s and at normal fares
This isn’t about the Jacobite, it’s about the whole of the WCRC fleet which spends most of its time doing 100mph on our mainlines. Only a very small fleet are used, summer only, on the Jacobite (and it’s used in winter on normal 100mph services).
It’s not overreach, it’s applying the railway safety regulations set by parliament in 1999. It is the regulators duty to do that. They gave fair warning of the enforcement of the rules in advance of March 2023. WCRC chose to prevaricate, and go to court but seemingly not creat a plan B.
Applying for a new exemption under 3 weeks before your first service is stupid and wholly negligent when you’ve known for 4 years that CDL was required.
They are the makers of this mess not ORR. They deserve no sympathy.
Some of the comments are really ridiculous. They do not have other stock they can use. The cost to update the coaches would be astronomical. Probably no more expensive than getting new coaches.
£37k per coach according to LSL. So 16 coaches =£600k on a service that makes a profit of over £1m per year. Typical WCR lazy management
This comment describes WCR attitude in a nutshell and is entirely correct.They are currently guilty tripping ORR , implying that they (ORR) will be responsible for possible loss of Jacobite.There moral compass is as dangerous as their doors locks.
Health and safety is NOTHING to do with common sense which is an abundant virtue. H&S was invented by lawyers and the insurance industry to enable claims for accidents and injuries to be dealt with. In the old days if you hurt yourself it was called HARD LUCK, now its seen as a possible pay-out.
WCR have had many years to fit central door locking to their carriages, as others have done already. Now they have lost the exemption that allowed them to run non conforming carriages on the mainline. Everyone else could see this coming apart from WCR.
Of COURSE they saw it coming. But the cost of fitting TOTALLYT UNNECESSARY central locking – never heard of anything so ridiculous – is prohibitive. So everyone suffers just because of a communist style dictive.
James
You need to dig deep and get a solution ongoing to be fit for purpose so that the service can survive. I know you can do it.
A squeak alarm at every window when touched or activated in opening bringing the cavalry close by to deal with the person not obeying the safety instructions & hence barred from travelling on WCR again.
I just cannot help thinking this is the fault of West Coast Railways themselves. They have had more than enough time to sort out the issue of central door locking as they have known for a long time that this is something that will need to be confronted, it’s not something that has been imposed on them at short notice. Many other mainline charter train companies have long converted their own stock. Furthermore, as I understand it WCR have carriage stock of their own with central door locking anyway, so why not use that on the Jacobite services while they have the Mk1 stock converted (or even hire stock from another company)? It seems that WCR think they should be treated as a special case over and above that of other charter train companies. These days passenger safety is paramount, especially on the mainline, whether heritage stock or not.
WCRC’s boss, David Smith, is a bit of a ‘character’ in the heritage railway scene, and I, for one, cannot help thinking that he is largely behind this situation. He’s going to have to conform to the central locking demands here.
It’s always the same make money and do not reinvest only to share holders
I can’t see a problem at the end of the day. The coaching stock has been used for decades before the invention of “Health and Safety” which at the end of the day all boils down to common sense, which unfortunately some people don’t have anymore!
BR fitted CDL to its coaches in the 1990s due to the number of people falling out. Slam door southern region stock was also due to be fitted but was instead scrapped and the networked and Electrostars built.
This is not new technology. The safety regulations mandating CDL were approved by parliament in 1999. ORR told the industry in 2021 that exemptions would end in March 2023.
WCRC cannot claim they didn’t know this was coming. They simply chose to do nothing and not even prepare a plan B. They now pay the price for that stubbornness
They have years to comply so no excuse. No excuse
I have said before and will again they have had 19 years to fit CDL and have done nothing to fit them so it’s NOT ORR fault it’s West coast railways they say that they are willing too work with ORR so fit CDL end of story
Well said! I strongly agree that the problem here is West Coast and not ORR – they’ve had 19 years to modify the carriages at a fairly low cost compared to revenue and has been carried out by other operators so shows its a reasonable request.
Given incidents like Wootton Bassett in 2015 its a company with a poor culture not a over-reaching regulator as some have claimed.
Typical nanny state now costing £20 million in lost tourist expenditure. Heads should roll at the ORR.
WCRC at fault
I just knew this was going to happen as they only have a single rake of MK2 coaches which are the later style and if that went to Fort William it could cause murder south of the border. Plus it wouldn’t have been enough as I think they need a certain amount of coaches in Fort William for these trains. WCR made a fortune from these trains but didn’t fit CDL to their coaches and now they are going to make a loss as they now can’t run the trains which brings in the money they need and all this is because they didn’t fit CDL to their coaches.
Problem is the cost to fit mk1 stock with electric CDL is going to cost a fortune
Fitting CDL to Mk1s is do-able as the NYMR and LSL have fitted it to their Mk1s. If they managed to do it, then WCRC can.
The only problem is that they’re refusing to. They have the money, they’re just not doing it also, if they actually listened to ORR in the first place and fitted the CDL when they (ORR) told them to, they wouldn’t be in this situation. Furthermore, WCRC keep asking for exemptions but this time, ORR have put their foot down. Until CDL is fitted to ALL the coaches, ORR will continue to revoke the exemption applications.
See my earlier post
The trouble is WCR knew this day was coming and have done nothing about it. Common sense would have said the profits from previous seasons should have been reinvested in the stock. If they had equipped 2 coaches a year for the last 8 years the job would be sorted now and the overall cost spread out for the good of the business.